Curse

Blue Steel · Aug 25, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Dont tell me I dont Know what the devs intended, I know that I dont, none of us do. That having been said, You'll never convince me they intended monks to be wearing doubled up sup runes (for the 105) and raiding one of the high end pve areas solo wielding a noob necromancer quest item (for the 55)...

At least one person got it right. Don't speculate about the economics of the game. Maybe ecto is cheap because there is no longer much demand as school is starting, people are discovering the fissure armor isn't worth the effort, and ecto was released in record amounts into the economy with the insta-billionaires of the price reset. I think ecto prices have very little to do with the monk solo farmers.

The reason the monk runes are so expensive, though, is that the build is unitended and an exploit. It turns what is supposed to be a balancing penalty (the loss of life associated with superior runes and items), and makes that the primary reason to use the item. It is a disgracefully copied build and an insult to the balance of the game. It is an exploitimonk, not an "invicimonk" and a incredibly boring way to play, to boot.

Mormegil · Aug 25, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Somehow I doubt that this is the case. Most if not all of us can and do farm well. We simply don't jump on a bandwagon full of idiots who truly don't know how to farm.

The way the actual things works is this:
Thos who can't let go of their cash cow suck at farming and/or much of the game ingeneral. These people are unable to farm with any other character as it is far to difficult than mashing buttons and are incapable of letting go of their get rich quick build.

I repeat: it does take some skill. It's not like beating the Sissy Boys in GvG, but still, not everyone can do it correctly, while everyone can farm Tengus with no problems at all.

Depending on how well you play and tweak your build, you'll be able to kill different kind of monsters, or more mobs at the same time.

Oh, and one last thing. Either you hate farming as a whole, or something's wrong here. I smell naivete in the air. I'm not saying that all the bashers can't farm as a solo monk, but... if you don't mind farming,
am I supposed to believe that you bought the sup runes, you built your 105 monk, you found nice gold items and some ectos, and after all this you came here complaining on the fact that this is an abuse and ethically wrong?

I hate to sound arrogant, but I can't help it this time. I'm 100% convinced that most of the people bashing on the solo monk build don't even have a slight idea of how it is played, can't or won't play it. I can understand people who just despise farming in general, but bashing on this particular farming strategy...come on...I have a feeling you hate it for other reasons, a very strong feeling actually.
Either that, or everyone here has become a senseless moralist.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 25, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Mormegil: You are seriously overstating the "difficulty" of farming UW as a 105/55 monk. What is this, Ninja Gaiden Hurricane Pack 2? Give me a break, lol. GW PVE is not that hard even at its hardest moments, and farming UW with a 105/55 monk is not even one of those moments. Don't assume for a second that you've "earned" the use of this build through especially 1337 skills.

And guys, as for whether ArenaNet *intended* for the 105/55 build to happen, is it nearly certain that they did NOT. Whether they *mind* it, on the other hand, is an altogether different issue, so don't interchange those two words. We'll all find out how much they mind it during the next one or two skill balance updates.

Mormegil · Aug 25, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

Mormegil: You are seriously overstating the "difficulty" of farming UW as a 105/55 monk. What is this, Ninja Gaiden Hurricane Pack 2? Give me a break, lol. GW PVE is not that hard even at its hardest moments, and farming UW with a 105/55 monk is not even one of those moments. Don't assume for a second that you've "earned" the use of this build through especially 1337 skills.

And guys, as for whether ArenaNet *intended* for the 105/55 build to happen, is it nearly certain that they did NOT. Whether they *mind* it, on the other hand, is an altogether different issue, so don't interchange those two words. We'll all find out how much they mind it during the next one or two skill balance updates.

Haha. I liked the Ninja Gaiden one.

But seriously, read what I wrote with more attention: I'm not overestimating anything, I just stated that it takes more skill than any other farming. It's not that difficult, I'll give you that, but it's not incredibly easy either.

Secondly, another one who knows what Anet intended. Guys, I lost my crystal ball, can I borrow yours for the next 20 years? Huh?

Squizzard45 · Aug 25, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

From what I understand, Arenanet developed this game so that Everyone could play. This ranges from the 13-14 year old kid who has nothing better to do with their summer than farm the "correct" way to the average "work an 8 hour day" guy trying to make his living IRL. I happen to be a bit of both, as I'm out on summer break from college, but working 8 and 9 hour days to support my education.

I really don't have the time to use correct and proper methods of farming. I, myself, don't use the 105-build with my monk, but I do farm with others that do. However, I went through the whole story the correct way, doing all the missions, learning all the skills and how to use them, etc... But the fact of the matter is that there is no way for me to make any decent amount of money without using that build (either myself or going with another monk that uses it).

The point of this post is that Anet developed the game so that anyone could play and keep up with the economy, so to speak. Just because all the normal farmers have the time to spend on doing it the difficult way, doesn't mean that I do. Besides, UW is just one spot out of how many places in the entire GW world? Warriors and ele's can just about farm anywhere they want to.

I'm not trying to out-right defend this build; I only want to say that just because the people who farmed the hard way don't want anyone else to be able to farm easier, doesn't comply with the ideals of Anet and GW
SKILL > TIME PLAYED

jdwoody · Aug 25, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

...and an insult to the balance of the game. It is an exploitimonk, not an "invicimonk" and a incredibly boring way to play, to boot

Unlike the excitement someone feels when you run them around the map? I'm sorry but that's just an opinion and IMHO runners have hurt this game 1000x more than some people soloing a few areas. My 2nd time through the game, I was amazed at how difficult it was to get a group to head out of the desert cities over the spam of the runners and now that has spread to every major city and area.

When I go to the ToA I usually take my healing monk or I switch my ranger to trapping mode and there are still plenty of people there to party with, the same can't be said for all the areas ruined by runners...

(No I don't have a 105/55 monk)

Diplo · Aug 25, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squizzard45

I'm not trying to out-right defend this build; I only want to say that just because the people who farmed the hard way don't want anyone else to be able to farm easier, doesn't comply with the ideals of Anet and GW
SKILL > TIME PLAYED

1. How does copying a build someone else developed equate to skill?

2. If Anet wanted people to "farm easier" they would just allow people to use bots. After all, not everyone has the time to actually play the game, so why penalise them?

Diplo · Aug 25, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdwoody

Unlike the excitement someone feels when you run them around the map? I'm sorry but that's just an opinion and IMHO runners have hurt this game 1000x more than some people soloing a few areas.

So because A is worse than B that then makes B acceptable?

Cymboric Treewalker · Aug 25, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

I am going to solo UW and FoW with my Mesmer... and forget about all this Monk of the Month carpe.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 25, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

SKILL != WEALTH ~_^

The thing is, you could use your "I have no time to do anything else" argument to defend almost anything, including even scamming novices. I don't think it deserves any weight, because to say that ArenaNet intended for "everyone" to play this game (by offering various roads to riches) is not really relevant when you consider that the "get rich quick" monk UW farming can be done by indeed everyone, putting you on the same playing field as if there were no such farming.

When people say that UW is "just one area out of a ton" they brush aside the FACT that UW is much more lucrative to farm than the vast majority of other areas in the game, assuming you *can* farm it as efficiently (which the 105/55 monks can, there are no doubts about that I hope).

The truth is, if UW wasn't so rewarding to farm, nobody would have ever given a rat's arse about the whole 105/55 monk build, seeing as it is garbage anywhere else it really matters.

Aera Lure · Aug 25, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplo

The reason for nerfing it is simple: ANet never, ever intended the game to be played that way. It's an exploit, albeit a clever one. The whole idea of Guild Wars is that professions should be more-or-less on a parr with each other. If only one profession using some esoteric build can solo UW then obviously something is wrong.

Cheers for diplo. Pretty much hits the nail on the head. If we saw other builds running the same sort of result, we could call it creative. If we see only one build doing it, and in a particular follow-these-guidelines fashion, its an exploit - especially given the net result.

stumpy · Aug 25, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

who really cares ... I mean if you have a problem send Anet your email. If they want to kill it, which I don't mind, they can. Until then, I am gonna abuse the hell out of it. Why, because I can. And any other form of skill abuse I find, guess what ... I will be abusing the hell outta that too. You want morales and ethics ... go to private school, go to church, go to anywhere but this forum.

The build is insanely overpowered ... I went to ice flow and took out the ice imps alone ... not usually an easy task for me to accomplish.

Algren Cole · Aug 25, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

SKILL != WEALTH ~_^

The thing is, you could use your "I have no time to do anything else" argument to defend almost anything, including even scamming novices. I don't think it deserves any weight, because to say that ArenaNet intended for "everyone" to play this game (by offering various roads to riches) is not really relevant when you consider that the "get rich quick" monk UW farming can be done by indeed everyone, putting you on the same playing field as if there were no such farming.

When people say that UW is "just one area out of a ton" they brush aside the FACT that UW is much more lucrative to farm than the vast majority of other areas in the game, assuming you *can* farm it as efficiently (which the 105/55 monks can, there are no doubts about that I hope).

The truth is, if UW wasn't so rewarding to farm, nobody would have ever given a rat's arse about the whole 105/55 monk build, seeing as it is garbage anywhere else it really matters.

UW isn't the most lucrative place for 105/55 monks to farm. They just think it is. It costs you a plat to get int so you need to subtract that from whatever you make. The drops are crap in UW...when was the last time you got something of value other than ecto? and how often do you get those?

Aera Lure · Aug 25, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

who really cares ... I mean if you have a problem send Anet your email. If they want to kill it, which I don't mind, they can. Until then, I am gonna abuse the hell out of it. Why, because I can. And any other form of skill abuse I find, guess what ... I will be abusing the hell outta that too. You want morales and ethics ... go to private school, go to church, go to anywhere but this forum.

The build is insanely overpowered ... I went to ice flow and took out the ice imps alone ... not usually an easy task for me to accomplish.

Thank you very much but I will bring my morals where I wish - I just wont apply them to you or ask that you follow them. ^^ If I came across as any way other than that, then I do apologize. My opinions are never meant as anything more than that. I dont understand the need to go on the offensive while simultaneously defending why you are doing it. If you like the build, play it. By all means do.

Mormegil · Aug 25, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

UW isn't the most lucrative place for 105/55 monks to farm. They just think it is. It costs you a plat to get int so you need to subtract that from whatever you make. The drops are crap in UW...when was the last time you got something of value other than ecto? and how often do you get those?

Thats right, but people seem to have serious issues with listening to others.

Bizarro_Jesus · Aug 25, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

My main character is a W/Mo. He solo's only in the desert and some jungle areas. Because that's all he can last for.

Sure I make about 2k per hour or so. That affects my gold reserves. Some Mo/w farming the UW does not affect my gold reserves.

(But what about the economy?) Well, if something's more expensive in life, I save up for it, or make more money. So, in GW, if something's more expensive, I go out and farm for like a week and a half (1 or 2 hours a night).

I don't complain about Mo/W because I don't care. My guild has healers (I also have one) to help people through missions, so I don't care. What I do care about is when Monks charge for partying. I've never paid for it, and never will, but it's just stupid. I was once offered money to join a party (my monk char) and I joined the party and denied the money. My reason? "The monk class wasn't created in this game to be an extortionists class." People who pay for monks should not. Just wait a bit, until decent and respectable players come through, they'll help you out.

Sorry, I was offtopic. Anyways, If they nerf it, it doesn't effect me. If they don't nerf it, it continues to not effect me.

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 25, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Besides Ecto, which can cover 8 more trips at least, the occasional gold drop will more than make up for the non-rewarding trips to the UW. You don't farm UW for the fiery dragon swords, heh, you farm it for the 600k early retirement drop. I'm not sure a Sand Drake ever gave me anything like that ^_^

Sure, godly stuff doesn't drop *all the time,* where DOES it?

I mean, what are you trying to prove? That 105/55 monks are idiots and don't know what they're doing by farming UW? That they're just wasting their time? Excuse me if I don't buy that for a second.

Me Burn U · Aug 25, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Yeah well, that exploit in Augury Rock didn't effect me either.

Can somebody explain to me what this exploit is? Seems I've missed it.

Mormegil · Aug 25, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

Besides Ecto, which can cover 8 more trips at least, the occasional gold drop will more than make up for the non-rewarding trips to the UW. You don't farm UW for the fiery dragon swords, heh, you farm it for the 600k early retirement drop. I'm not sure a Sand Drake ever gave me anything like that ^_^

Sure, godly stuff doesn't drop *all the time,* where DOES it?

I mean, what are you trying to prove? That 105/55 monks are idiots and don't know what they're doing by farming UW? That they're just wasting their time? Excuse me if I don't buy that for a second.

Apart from the 600k item that may or may not drop in a lifetime (needs to be a fellblade-stormbow, needs to be gold, needs to have 15% >50...you have a ridiculously low chance to get a similar item), ever tried to switch between tengus and augury rock? It's faster and way more rewarding. In fact, ectos are only 8k now, and one solo trip in the UW takes long, not to mention the 1k fee. Tengus give you 3 gold armors every 10 trips roughly, but how long does one trip take? Nothing. 10 minutes, maybe. Any monk sup rune is more valuable than an ecto, then there's sup vigor, sup absorb, sup energy storage, sup fire and some other superior which is moderately expensive.
When you've farmed there 4-5 times, go to the Crystal desert
Minotaurs and griffons give you loads of money, black dye fairly often, and sometimes even nice gold items. Once again, it takes 10 min average.

Repeat Tengus, Repeat desert. Enjoy.

I hope you'll be glad to buy this, Sir.

IlikeGW · Aug 25, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Anet is never going to agree with you that what is supposed to be a hard end game level should be solo farmable by one person. You people are better off asking them why the drops are so bad in the game and keeping at it, then to keep begging them to let you keep farming tricks that you know they won't.